Leaving the Nest: Acing your Non-academic Job Interview
I learned a lot during my PhD program. I learned how to perfectly pour an agarose gel to get the cleanest image of my PCR bands, how to synthesize delicate RNA strands in vitro, and how to write complex scripts to automate my RNA-seq analyses. I learned to balance the needs of my advisor and my students, how to fit in an extra experiment in between laboratory teaching sections, and how to read scientific papers on public transit without getting carsick.But what I didn’t learn was how to get an actual, real-life, adult job.Being in graduate school comes with the seeming benefit of delaying the unavoidable reality that one day, we will leave the safety of our academic nest and need to venture out to the cold, harsh, “real world job market.” Some of us will be so lucky to stay in the safe swaddles of academia for our entire lives, seamlessly landing a postdoc followed by a tenure-track faculty position. Not that academia is all smooth sailing, but at least it’s the world that we were raised in as young investigators. Familiar, understandable, and somewhat safe.However, for the 70%+ of us that are unable or unexcited to stay in academia as faculty, one day we will find ourselves faced with one of our scariest, most daunting challenges yet: the non-academic job interview. Much like many millennials pine for a high-school education that would have included real-world skills like tax preparation, it seems that a well-rounded graduate school curriculum would bother to include any mention of how to land a job after graduation. Sadly, most (if not all) graduate courses focus on the nuances of research and obtaining academic funding, but exclude any mention of the option to leave academia, much less how to accomplish such a departure. The academy produced us, but it failed to prepare us for how to eventually split ways.I’m just realizing the extent of this graduate school failure almost two-years after obtaining my doctorate, as I find myself a bit lost at a career crossroads as my first postdoc nears completion. I love the freedom of academia, but not the sometimes archaic structure and limited funding opportunities. Systems built on nepotism aren’t very supportive to those not already in the family. However, the prospect of venturing out to the biotech job market is terrifying. What questions will they ask me in an interview? How do I best answer technical and non-technical questions? When is it appropriate to send a follow-up email? The fact that I even had to ask these questions left me feeling like a tippy toddler trying to fit into an oversized business suit.Regardless of if my career trajectory leads towards or away from academia, I wanted to figure out how to do this whole job interview thing. All of my questions seemed so basic, things that someone with a doctorate should already know. But the fact was that no one had ever taught me this stuff, and chances are no one has taught YOU any of it as well. I have utilized some amazing resources within my OHSU community to gather information about how to prepare for and navigate a non-academic job interview.Most of this information came from my conversations with Seth Igarta, OHSU’s wonderful Professional and Career Development Specialist. If you are part of the OHSU community, I highly recommend that you connect with him and utilize his knowledge and tips as an invaluable resource during your job search!
Before you Start
At this stage, your polished resume has caught the attention of the hiring team and gotten you in the door for your first interview. Congratulations! But the hard work is just beginning, and it’s now time to wow the interview team with your professional and social skills. Easy, right? If this all sounds terrifying, below are some step-by-step advice on how to break down the interview process into manageable chunks.The first thing to remember is that you should feel good about the entire interview process. No matter how it goes, being interviewed should feel empowering to you and your career progression. Even if you feel like you fumbled with your words or gave awkward answers it is all part of a learning experience. Regardless of how perfectly you respond to the interviewer’s questions, it’s also very important to remember that a large portion of the process is entirely out of your control. You have no idea if the boss’s cousin interviewed for the same position the next day, or if some super-start candidate with 20+ of ivy league experience was also in the candidate pool.
Preparation
Because of how long the hiring process can be, sometimes you will have weeks or months in between submitting a resume and landing the first interview. Even though this might sound like completely obvious advice, it is very important to go back and do research on the company you are interviewing with. You want to show specific, knowledgeable interest in the company and their mission as part of your pitch. Even better, if you were able to do some informal, informational interviews with current employees of the company prior to your job interview, having that advanced and more intimate knowledge of the workplace and culture can give you a huge leg up.The biggest part of the interview process is storytelling. Initial interviews tend to be 90% the same, mostly consisting of “tell me about yourself” type questions. The good news for you is that this consistent structure makes it super easy to prepare a set of stories to tell interviewers about why you are amazing. You want to walk into any interview with five stories you want to tell about yourself, utilizing the STAR format. Additionally, you’re going to want to practice saying the words ahead of time. This means talking to yourself in the car, going over your lines while cooking dinner, or rehearsing more formally in front of friends. If you’ve spent your entire professional career working in academia and are now trying to pivot to industry, make sure to end your stories about research success by framing all your academic achievements in the form of deliverables. Give them a concrete outcome that was produced from your research work, such as $20,000 earned through grants or a specific number of first-author publications generated from a particular project.If you have barriers to communication, such as English and a Second Language or social anxiety, the best thing you can do for yourself is to PREPARE. If you have a communication obstacle to overcome, you’ll have to spend extra time doing your homework so that you can enter the interview as your most confident and authentic self. The more rehearsed and practiced you are prior to the interview, the more human you can be during it. OHSU offers access to the Standout Video Interview Practice tool. It can be a real lifesaver for practicing those extra-awkward zoom interviews. https://ohsu.standout.com/home
Walking into the Room
Even if the room is virtual, you need to be conscious of how you present yourself to the interview team. Practice the SOLER posture: Align yourself square in the frame, have an open body posture (no legs/arms crossed), lean in towards the interviewer, maintain eye contact (don’t stare, but make eye contact when you are making an important point look them in the eye!), and finally….relax! Remember that your interviewers are people, too. They are looking for a great candidate to fill the position and want you to succeed. You do not have to be 100% perfect in an interview - in fact, I think it’s likely better and more humanizing to make a couple fumbles. If they wanted to hire a robot, they would be investing in Chat GPT.Although this one sounds a bit like something your grandma would remind you of in a half sweet half patronizing bit of advice, remember to dress professionally. “Professional” dress could encompass a wide spectrum of outfit choices, but most important your clothing should make you feel physically confident. Don’t underestimate the power that looking your best can have on your overall demeanor and presence.
The Interview
You can always expect more than one interview, so buckle up for the long haul. Typically, the first interview will be more HR type questions that judge your competence and overall fit, and is generally conducted via phone. The second and/or third interviews are more often in person (although the pandemic changed this somewhat), and will spend more time diving into you as a person and really assessing if you are a good cultural fit for the workplace. These tend to be longer chats with more people, and might include a site visit, tour, and lunch/dinner.During the interview, you’re going to be asked a lot of questions (...obviously), ranging from softballs like “tell me about yourself” to more difficult “describe your biggest weakness” or “elaborate on your experience with this technical skill.” Your answers generally should not be more than a minute long. If they hit you with a surprise question that you need a bit of time to reflect on, that’s ok! Do NOT say “that’s a good question” to stall, and don't use verbal or visual distractors like “um,” twirling your hair, or twitching anxiously (my personal favorite!). Instead, you can explain that you need a moment to reflect, and take a couple seconds to draw upon your past experiences and formulate a coherent answer. This is where preparation really comes in - you should have a rehearsed general answer for most every type of question that you can mold into answering the specific question they are asking.Another very helpful strategy can be taking notes during the interview so that you stay on topic and do not get lost as you try and word-vomit the perfect answer to a tricky question. It’s completely appropriate to let the interviewer know you’re taking notes while they are asking questions, but obviously do not let your note-taking distract from the actual interview. It should help you, not hinder.Although all interviews will be different, there tend to be some questions that will always get asked. Below are a few of the typical ones and how best to prepare your answer:
Tell me about yourself. Very first question is usually “tell me about yourself”. This is a big deal question! You need to have a story prepared that makes sense. You can go chronologically, or package it in a reverse chronological order. The point of this narrative is to explain how you add value to the company.
Strength and weakness questions. These are tough - you want to highlight your strengths in every answer, demonstrate your maturity, and analyze how you want to OVERCOME the challenge. If you know your weakness and how you want to overcome it, that becomes a strength. These types of questions can be hidden - if they’re asking you about teams and workplace challenges, you are inadvertently being asked about strengths/weaknesses. Strengths have positive and dark sides. “I'm a good communicator” means you could also talk too much and dominate. “Detail oriented” can also mean you take too long to accomplish tasks. It’s great to say “my strength is this, but it’s also my weakness, and this is how I’ve learned to overcome it,” but you need to spend some time thinking about how you will skillfully and non-obviously state this.
“Do you have any questions for us?” You will almost always be asked this at the end of the interview, and the answer should always be YES! You should prepare three questions for the company to have on hand. Use these questions as an opportunity to not only show that you are excited about this particular job, but to spend some time interviewing them about if the company will be a good fit for you (remember, the interview process is dynamic and goes both ways!). A question about the job description will show that you have thoroughly read the posting and are excited about the details of the position. Asking about the workplace culture will demonstrate that you care about DEI initiatives and their commitment to growth and inclusivity. Another great ask is to inquire about professional development opportunities, or their commitment to employee growth and progress.
The Salary Question
Sometimes, interviewers will ask you about your expected starting salary. Try your absolute best to not offer a number first, instead let them come to you with an offer. However, if it is unavoidable, you want to give them a small and specific range (this one surprised me!). Do some homework prior to the interview about expected salary ranges for the position. If most people seem to make $100,000 a year in comparable positions, give a range from $100-105k. After they give you a formal offer, you will need to enter into the negotiation process. Remember that salary is only one part of the package you are negotiating for - professional development opportunities, benefits, PTO, and work schedule are all on the table. I will write a whole post dedicated to the topic of negotiation at a later time!
Interview Follow-up
You always want to spend some time reflecting on the interview. No matter how it goes - from jumping for joy extremely well to awkward and disjointed - you should temper your enthusiasm or disappointment with kindness and respect. Be a good human being to the interviewers during the process and show kindness to yourself and everyone involved, including yourself. If things went poorly, right after the interview is a great time to reflect on why you left with a negative feeling. You might need to rethink content for a particular answer, or spend more time preparing so that you feel more confident and self-assured. Interviewing is a difficult and challenging new skill that many academics have never had to practice, so fumbling a bit is all part of the process!Follow-up emails are a courtesy that is expected but not explicitly stated. After finishing the interview, always follow up within 24 or 48 hours to thank them for their time and reiterate your interest and the things that make you an especially good candidate. You can also attach your resume to this email if you want to be extra-thorough.Often, the interviewers will give you a timeframe when you should expect to hear back from them. If they said they’d be in touch by Friday and no email arrives, wait 3-5 business days to inquire about the “status of the position.” If you are still ghosted, you can leave it be and move on to the next position.
Final Thoughts
Even though this process can feel overwhelming and deflating, remember that interviewing is a skill that takes practice! Just like scientific skills take years to develop and hone, you cannot expect yourself to be the perfect interviewee right out of the gate. Be gentle and kind with yourself as you navigate the process, focus on what you’re learning from each new interview experience, and seek out mentorship and guidance from trusted sources along the way.
More Resources on Interview Prep:
Interview Skills Prep from UCSF https://career.ucsf.edu/gsp/interviewing
Translating PhD Skills for Non-Academic Employers https://beyondacademia.ucsb.edu/sites/default/files/2020-09/Transferable-Skills_March-2018.pdfPhD
Career Planning Sourcing and Accessing non academic jobs https://www.ucc.ie/en/media/support/hrresearch/PhDFindingnonacademicjobsSep2021.pdf
The World is Your Oyster: Advice for PhD Students Considering Non-academic Jobs https://iaphs.org/the-world-is-your-oyster-advice-for-phd-students-considering-non-academic-jobs/
5 Tips To Guide PhDs In Preparing To Pass Their First Industry Interview https://cheekyscientist.com/5-tips-to-guide-phds-in-preparing-to-pass-their-first-industry-interview/
How to Turn a Ph.D. Into a Nonacademic Career https://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2021/04/29/advice-leveraging-your-phd-successful-nonacademic-career-opinion
Interviewing for a Non-Academic Job https://graduate.dartmouth.edu/student-support/career-services/interview-practice-techniques/interviewing-non-academic-job
About the author: Maddie Krieger is a Postdoctoral Fellow at Oregon Health and Science University. Her work combines wet lab and computational approaches to investigate the polymicrobial nature of oral diseases. She loves talking to other current or aspiring scientists about non-traditional STEM education and career paths. Maddie has been the Communications Chair of WIS since April 2022, and is passionate about science equality and bringing issues of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion to the forefront of discussions around STEM career paths and education. In addition to being a scientist, Maddie is an avid runner, equestrian, reader, and fan of deserts and reality TV.
